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If it was Nelson Mandela, would our bravery falter?

Concerning allegations against Bill Cosby, Prachi Gupta said this: 
Two weeks after Dylan Farrow resurrected 21-year-old allegations of sexual abuse at the hands of her father, filmmaker Woody Allen, Gawker’s Tom Scocca reminded the world that in 2004, 13 women came forward with allegations that comedian Bill Cosby drugged and sexually abused them. At the time, the lawsuit made a minor ripple in the media, but, like Farrow’s, their accounts were eventually dismissed as barely a blemish on the spotless image of a beloved celebrity. 
Now, their stories are reemerging. Last week, Newsweek interviewed Tamara Green, one of the women who served as a witness in the case brought forth by Andrea Constand. On Wednesday, 46-year-old Barbara Bowman spoke out in Newsweek
Both Bowman and Green joined Constand’s lawsuit as witnesses in 2004 after hearing about her case on TV. Newsweek reporter Katie Baker explains that “neither had anything to gain financially, as the statute of limitations had expired for both of them.” 
Cosby settled the lawsuit with Constand for an undisclosed sum of money in 2006.
Bowman’s account strongly resembles the other stories of Cosby’s alleged victims, many of whom have provided detailed accounts of how Cosby mentored them, became a father figure, then drugged and raped them. ("Another woman speaks out over Bill Cosby,"
Patrick McEvoy-Halston

Yeah, he was the nation's father -- there was no way we were going to dislodge him. We're only open to the full reveals when we no longer need figures to be magical. We should learn from this and attend a little more carefully to every figure we currently need to imagine as provisioning and good -- whether or not that's the full story. 

For example, if it turned out Nelson Mandela had been a philanderer, would we all be pretty much ready to devour whomever stepped up to report the story, if it wasn't something that could somehow be managed within his current image? I suspect we would. He may have been as pristine as we like to imagine him, a truly honourable man, but it really doesn't matter -- we still need him as a pillar. 
And this means all our no-longer-required pillars from a generation or two ago can easily go bye-bye, and we'll feel like we've evolved -- how fantastic it is to know we could let those crutches go! -- created a social sphere finally a bit more hospitable to terrorized victims, become essentially more egalitarian and small-people democratic, have less of a need to sanctify father-figures / all-provisioning mothers, but we may actually have not. 
We do a momentary check. Do we still need them? And if we don't they can be hefted off to the sacrificial block, what-me-worry. And if we do … 
Trouble … Aren't you just being a bit opportunistic, dear?

@Emporium There's a big difference between a 'philanderer' (having sex with many consenting women) and drugging and raping women. IF this is true, then I hope justice will be served.

Patrick McEvoy-Halston

@bobkat @Emporium  You know what I was getting at, though. We don't need Bill Cosby anymore, just like we longer need Lance Armstrong or Tiger Woods. Our task is to see if there are any other figures who've replaced them who we need to see a certain way, and if proof was available as to otherwise, as difficult as it might be for us, we'd adulterate our image and see that justice is done. 

@Emporium @bobkatHe he. You said "adulturate"....

FYI, Mandela was a Moslem in a polygamous country. It is known that he had seven wives. He is still the man we knew him as. In his country, it's a responsibility for a respected man of means to feed as many as he can.

Patrick McEvoy-Halston

@AlGreene  Okay, but you might want to reign it in there … we liberals can only hear so much about multiple wives and what goes with it other than the responsible feeding of them, before our cultural allowance starts cracking. 

Please don't tell us the age of his wives, for instance … and nothing as well about how the number of wives might have swelled his ego. 

Mandela wasn't Muslim. There are other polygamous cultures besides some forms of Islam.

@AlGreene Mr. Mandela was not a Muslim. He never had seven wives either.  He had two. And he married his second wife only after he divorced his first wife, Winnie.

Just because there are Muslims in Africa, it doesn't mean that every black African is a Muslim.


For YOUR information, Mandela was a Methodist. It is [well] known that he was married three times - twice divorced and survived by his third wife.

Where DO you morons get your 'information'?? Yes, I know. A certain orifice as full of sh*t as your skulls.

How many rapes and attacks did she plan to go back for before Cosby finally got tired of raping and attacking her?

@SpudSpudly That's irrelevant. I'm curious about that as well, but it doesn't mitigate what he did.

Interesting - well, not really, it's common - that you would call HER out and not comment at all on his actions. Are you saying that since she went back that she deserved it?

@lauri jst @SpudSpudly No, she didn't deserve it, but I wouldn't have gone anywhere with him, if he'd done this to me. Once is enough!

@bobkat @lauri jst@SpudSpudlyAre you an 18 year old girl in the middle of the time when Cosby was America's darling? Have you taken even a Psychology 101 class and learned how easy it is for a rich and powerful person to manipulate a weak and vulnerable mind? You don't even have to be rich. Most cult leaders aren't and manage to convince hundreds, including men, to do their bidding.

Patrick McEvoy-Halston

@Pacyderm @bobkat @lauri jst @SpudSpudly People who've been abused as children can be drawn to seek out abusers in adult life -- the repetition-compulsion is ingrained, and it's actually a way of gaining control over previously-suffered abuse. This may not be available in Psyc 101, but Lenore Terr and some other wonderful psychologists / therapists understand the reasons behind the bizarre things that the victimized will be compelled to do. 

Basically, what I'm saying is that we don't have to stick to a "rich and powerful person manipulating the awed trusting young naive" narrative to take on those who want to say it's her fault. If the allegations are true, Cosby preyed on people he intuitively understood were hindered from past abuse to be able to say no to him. That's what all abusers do -- they're drawn to the weak. 
And if we want to get at why adults would want to do this -- victimize people … well, that would be nice: it'd look to amount to really appreciating all the ramifications of having been abused as children -- it can draw you to want to play the part of the predator as well. We still apparently need to believe in evil. 


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