https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/rebecca-traister-on-the-post-weinstein-reckoning.html
billydwilliamsthethethird23 hours ago
As a man I want to
respect the feelings of women who have been subject to harassment/abuse of
power. Still, I do feel that principles of due process and fairness are
important..
Trouble is, hubris
sells. A measured, justice-seeking ethos would make it harder for a
magazine to create a hard-hitting narrative of victims, aggressors, and
reckoning.
This is a story
about gender. It is also about human failing and wrongdoing. Even
though men tend to hold more leadership roles, other stories of men as
"victims" are also valid.
How many dozens of
female high school teachers or coaches have been found guilty of sexual
conduct with their students in the past few years? Obviously not
the fault of patriarchy. The truth is complicated.
Emotional and even
some physical abuse by women is indeed widespread.
Starting my career,
I found myself on the receiving end of what could constitute sexual harassment
from one man and one woman with some power over me, and it sucked. I can
only imagine what it may feel like on a more severe level for victimized women
working in a boys club.
Dating, I have been
assaulted by a (much smaller) woman (grabbed and restrained by the wrists when
attempting to leave her). With another woman, kissing in a car after a
date, I was struck by her across face without permission in what appeared to be
her attempt to add an element of kink.
To the female cop
who hit on me after she let me off for a ticket--standing over me with her
gun--watch out, you might find yourself on an anonymous google doc of
payback.
Patrick
McEvoy-Halston
@billydwilliamsthethethird When
you refer to female high school teachers or coaches the numbers won't
compare... you'll be informed by all the stats that show as much. You need to
touch upon something untouchable: mothering. What cannot be connected here,
absolutely cannot, is that women who are abused and humiliated through
patriarchy cannot but emotionally have needs for their children that are not
helpful for their development, are in a sense, incestuous. You cannot connect
that a man's later need to attack women could be born out of early childhood
mis-use by their emotionally deprived mothers. Why? Mothers are sacrosanct --
victims will never out their predator, for it means being lost to their love
forever. So the problem is only addressed sort of innocently, by gradually
evolving hate out of the world and encouraging support. People feel more
esteem, and they have children for much better reasons than to provide
attention not provided elsewhere in life.
Sperlady18
hours ago
@billydwilliamsthethethird No.
This is a story about MALE PRIVILEGE.
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billydwilliamsthethethird15
hours ago
@Sperlady @billydwilliamsthethethird I
would agree. I also think it's about human failing. What explains
the many cases of female teachers abusing/seducing their male students?
How about emotional violence between same sex couples (which I assume is not
more or less prevalent than it is among straight couples.)
Again, I believe
that most events have more than one cause or important aspect.
When we reduce
things down, we set ourselves up for the kind of lost trust that erodes
democracy. This is why it is across this type of fault lines that Putin's
bots fans the flames of intense resentment...
Patrick
McEvoy-Halston23 hours ago
You were pretty
affected with what happened to the Gores. What if it turns out that someone who
cannot be allowed to be taken down unless our whole collective emotional
equilibrium falters, not Bill Clinton but someone like Obama, gets taken down?
He's like some kind of social leverage... where would this take our minds?
Isn't there a
possibility that what will transpire is a lot of men openly confessing their
guilt, and then submitting to some kind of public reform movement which will
help them regain virtue... become populist Bernie Bros whose fidelity is to
their Mother Nation? They gain integrity, sanction, by knowing that, for Her,
they'll sacrifice everything pretentious about themselves... their careers,
their previous prestige -- everything. The end result being that they will be
transposed into citizens who are now markedly different from many of their
chief accusers, in that they are way out of limelight, enjoying very few fruits
of professional success. They stage their revenge without even their own noticing,
by making everyone who is still staunchly for "empowerment" rather
than self-sacrifice, one of the bourgeois who has spoiled themselves and
ignored society/their mother nation. Isn't is possible that the end result will
be that many liberal men will not reflect and change, but be lost to the only
kind of liberalism worth sanctioning... because the source for their rage and
hate against women cannot be so readily elided; requires some kind of out?
carll6023
hours ago
Why is there a
post-Weinstein reckoning and not a post-Trump reckoning? Why did 53 percent of
white women still go to the polls and pull the lever for Trump? While I
sympathize with the plight of all women through history, I have difficulty
taking this current outburst seriously from a generation of women who enabled
the most misogynist president in American history. American women need to
really take stock of themselves and the messages they are sending. This is one
among several opinion pieces that I have seen lately on the matter of Weinstein
that completely plays down the larger and far more powerful predator. This
inconsistency requires attention.
Miriam61021 hours ago
@carll60 So
very true. And I think Trump as the background to all of this plays a big part
in why it's all being exposed now.
Patrick
McEvoy-Halston21 hours ago
@Miriam610 @carll60 Or more
generally populism... the picture that is coming to mind of the male oppressor
is someone living large and having the time of his life these past thirty
years. It corresponds with the era of liberalism that people like Chris Hedges
are trying to take down. We'll learn a lesson about "human nature,"
about how letting people go unsupervised plays to an actually false sense of
what human beings are about, and will lead to an era where we all agree to go
about our business in more dour, self-recriminating, circumscribed mode. We
need to correlate what is happening here, absolutely, with this weird eruption
a couple years ago of populist nativism around the world. Even if there is no
connection, it would seem wise to certainly consider it. In this era, I'm not
entirely willing to be encouraged by what's happening. I don't sufficiently
trust that progressivism is actually at the helm of our age. I'm worried that
this might be a false thrust, for convenience purposes only. Don't we feel this
when we get lured to explore the pedophiles in Hollywood? We're being lured to
shape our selves... our matrix of liberal friends, as everything common lore
has said about them. If Obama was ever guilty of any of this behaviour, it'll
mean the end of the liberal era... aren't we sensing this too?
blueshiva12 hours ago
@Patrick
McEvoy-Halston @Miriam610 @carll60 No
We Are Not Sensing This ! What I am sensing is that you are not who you
claim to be. What's with this subtle casting of aspersions at President
Obama pretending to be liberal? This is the same kind of unfounded
insinuations that I noticed being made against Hillary during the election. I
think it is deliberate and I think you are a Russian Troll. Making subtle
unfounded, baseless remarks against people with quite respectable and well
earned reputations is a well known and effective tactic to sway public opinion
against those people and to begin to plant lies and larger false stories
against them. You are not welcome here comrade Patrick McEvoy-Halston.
Patrick
McEvoy-Halston4 hours ago
@Miriam610 @carll60 @blueshiva @Patrick McEvoy-Halston @Miriam610 @carll60 He's
liberal. But what has been his own behaviour towards women? Anyway, he very
well could be the perfect gentleman, but Traister suspected that the Gore
marriage was golden too... and was rattled when it proved, not so. We needed
Obama to be squeaky clean. And that he might well be. But we should explore
just how much we were willing to obfuscate from view, for his seeming exactly
the right personage for us to associate ourselves with to go through this last
decade -- one that produced teeming numbers of dispossessed -- feeling
exultant, excused, righteous, without guilt. If the answer is a lot, and we've
hinged our own virtue, the virtue of the age in which we prospered, on him,
then populists know that exposing him as he is without our projections would
leave us, our liberal age, discredited. It would give them the field, and we'd
be checking ourselves in to insane asylums.
Patrick McEvoy-Halston4 hours ago
@Miriam610 @carll60 If
pedophiles are exposed in Hollywood, we worry that we won't be able to control
the public narrative and homosexuality will be equated with it, and leverage to
the populist right. If too many powerful Jews get exposed, then we worry we
won't be able to control the public narrative and antisemitism gets a lift. If
the numbers of powerful liberals who were extreme predators is staggering, then
we worry we won't be able to control the public narrative and
Hollywood/Washington/New York are the cesspools the populist right has always
claimed them to be. We delight that people who have been cowed for decades are
finally knowing what it is to be given the support they should have received
from the very start, and in finding people who made roadkill of them but who
prospered themselves finally no longer prospering. But we're all wondering if
we've actually got full control over this narrative... one feels this
especially when the matter of Corey Feldman comes up. We know he deserves, and
must have... but we no longer believe we control how things get narratized, and
so we think, as well, no, this one we've got to find some way to staunch.
Victims, you're going to have to continue suffering. The consequences of
exposure are to dire.
We have left
ourselves with no way to understand why powerful centres of liberal prowess are
seeming so easy now to conflate with criminal predatory behaviour. Not even
explanations we might understand but that the larger populace might not, but
rather nothing at all other than villainy. Ann Douglas argued that the 1920s
got their game going by going to war against a tyrannical bully that they
believe smothered their predecessors' creativity -- the Victorian matron -- and
loved Freud's tyrannical castrating father because he intimidated her back into
the shadows. What if some of our own creativity owed to empowering the same
sort of predator in creative circles, leaving people with no recourse now but
to join any movement that presents itself that allows them to be unassuming good
boys to the worshipped matron again? Become sterile bernie bros.?
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