Liberals co-opting greenies (2 July 2009)
Re: There is a way. It will be painful and you have already suffered much for the cause.
It is possible if we can get a movement going, to retake the BC Liberal party back from the fascista and send them packing off to the welcoming arms of Wilf Hurd over at BC's Neocon central. The party itself is very weak with almost no attendance at constituency meetings and almost no grassroots fund raising. It is ripe for a progressive counterattack. Tell your Green friends that now is the time to rally and gain control of the ruling political machine.
It is very easy for determined special interest groups to hijack political party's in Canada because the electorate is so disinterested. For inspiration look at David Orchard a far left progressive who almost beat Joe Clark for Conservative party leader. Look at how Harper and Stockwell Day and the religious right were able to hijack the ReformaTories. Look at how the Gordo and his media wing was able to wipe out Gordon Wilson who was leader of an actual Liberal party until Neocon mass membership buys defeated him. We can do unto Gordo as Gordo did to Gordon Wilson and do it within the year.
If progressives start buying party memberships in large quantities we can easily within the year take back all Liberal party constituency associations and their executive, make massive changes at party policy conventions, force a leadership review convention, change the party name back to Liberal and elect a progressive MLA as party leader.
You need to talk every progressive/green person you know into joining the BCLiberal party.
Then having infiltrated coordinate a surprise attack leveled at every constituency.
I know it sounds horrible and the stench of rotting meat will be almost unbearable, but we can do it if we hold our noses and smile through gritted teeth. There are already lots of real Liberals in the BCLiberal party Christy Clark, Ken Jones, Carole Taylor, just booted Gordon Hogg and myriads more still hanging on hoping a messiah will come along and save them from the suffering neocon yoke. Some like Carole Taylor tried but the odor eventually overwhelmed them and without support they were had to quit.
This is Lotus Land where all is possible. (Seth, Reply to post, Crawford Kilian, “‘Good luck BC’: Morton’s Cry of Despair,” The Tyee, June 30 2009)
Seth: There aren't a whole lot of Greenies to be found about right now. You see, we took your lead and hacked the heads off many of the traitorous vermin, a short while ago. I could go see if they'll go for your “join the liberal party” suggestion myself, but since Ralph Nader's still kicking about, even after killing 3 million people!, I'm glad you've got someone else in mind for the sell.
Re: Kindly put your comment in some form of understandable language. In fact you might find there are some "greenies" around: My self for instance. I would "very much" like to understand what is going on. I do not find your contribution helpful at all. Seth had a damn good idea! (doggone, Reply to post, “Good luck BC”)
I can give you context, doggone. Seth's not exactly been a trustworthy friend of Greenies (his word, not mine) as of late. He set them up as RESPONSIBLE for fascist success, in grim terms -- Ralph Nader, he says, has the blood of millions of dead iraqis on his hands, for instance, and he said something similar in regards to the effect of Greens voting Green, here in B.C. Now he's their "best friend," encouraging them to cozy-up with corpses, sell their souls, and perhaps other fates you wouldn't wish upon your worst enemy. Reason for caution, me thinks.
The liberal party will be revitalized, but not by progressives. It's going fascist too, and in my judgment will well succeed with head ghoul Ignatieff at the helm. Progressive Greens were not co-opted by the NDP. Right now they seem to have integrity, which draws some of us to want to know more. Switching to Liberal would amount to lounging about with even darker hellions, would amount to dissipating strength rather than accruing it, might amount to falling for quite the con.
Re: I don't think the Greens who are committed to running candidates in elections would be of much help. They are an extremely tiny proportion of green folk bestowed with the power of that "Green" label that they routinely invoke to destroy rather than heal. Their performance in the 2000 election with Ralph Nader in the US so horrified Americans that the Green's moved en mass to the Democrats. Without them Obama would have lost. Certainly Harpo and the Gordo depend on the Green party for significant help in winning elections for their Neocon hordes.
The Greens we are looking for here make up the vast majority of the movement - the ones like Alexandra here who believe in protecting the environment sometimes at the cost of compromising some of their ideals in an effort to try to form a power base with other progressives.
I for example, am a pronuke greenie which puts me beside James Lovelock and Steward Brand but at odds with most other Greens. Be happy to debate the issue at any time. I vote strategically for the most progressive ticket that I hope can win putting aside differences until after an election when a consensus might be achieved.
Yes the Liberal party in Canada has a horrible track record but that is mostly because progressives tended to bow out of political life. It was easier and we couldn't stand the stink I suppose.
But the ball is in our court. We can rise up and overpower the weak ineffective neocon infiltrators, then seize and hold power. We know all about backroom boys and how to send them packin' off to a revitalized BC Con party.
It’s the only chance we have. (Seth, Reply to post, “Good luck BC”)
I very much doubt you're right about the move away from Nader being the principle reason Obama got in, Seth. But if that is what they did, perhaps seduced by their own projections, perhaps by his fine manners, perhaps by the prospect of finally having a person of color in office, they would NOW then be responsible for electing someone in who is continuing the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, who can spin it so that it seems less about oil, so that it might, with apparent legitimacy, be expanded, and certainly prove harder to stop; is causing the gay/lesbian community to suspect he might at heart actually be homophobic; and is keeping the have/have not world afloat. They are beginning to look like easy dupes, who have turned away those like Nader who well understood the true nature of someone like Obama. They will probably continue to feel dirty, foolish, girlishly infatuated (sorry girls), and this self-doubt might cause them to believe they now DESERVE what's coming to them (you're hearing some of this self-loathing from some members of the gay/lesbian community that voted for him, right now--a trend that will surely increase), making them seem like they might end up seeming more a France to a WW2 Germany, than I'd like.
The Progressive Conservative party was taken over by regressives because their primitive mental states were a match for a populace increasingly inclined to scapegoat, to prefer thinking in polarized terms. Maybe it is Seth's own tendency to do the same, to identify Progressives he doesn't agree with as blood-on-their-hands murderers, that has him now sensing out a way someone who had preferred to identify as Green could join up with a "strong" war party like the Liberals, helmed by its own sexy, upright "Obama," without this move inducing too much guilt.